An Actual Transcript from a Live Video at Barge.

L.W Lee Winterston
P.S Peter Sorenson (?)

So, in walks Lee, after having his first pint, he puts a VHS video into the player. The bar is very full. There is still a lot of chatter going on in the corners, the atmosphere is relaxed, maybe too relaxed, anyway.

P.S "So here what you've all been waiting for.." woo Peter stands up front alongside Lee. He has his video camera filming and is waving at the crowd.

L.W "So what I'm gonna say before I show any of this is, if I hurt anybody's feelings it is not intentional. If you're belief systems have taken you in that direction then that's OK everybody makes mistakes so....You can probably guess what this is about, it's about the Oliver's Castle footage, and there's been a controversy been lasting nearly a year now and tonight it's going to end. Now back on Friday me and Peter with Nippon TV went into the studios based in Bristol, which I can now name as "First Cut Studios" based at HTV in Brislington, Bath Road in Bristol, so if you wanna find this guy his name is JOHN WABE and you're most welcome to give him a call, errm I don't think I'm going to hide his name from anybody he was given an ultimatum......"

Someone: "Can we have his number then" Laughter.

L.W: "Errm yeah sure, I'm sure I can give you the number, if you'd all like to ring him tomorrow because I did say he had till midday but I'll explain later what that's about. It's now about 8:30 and I'm sure he's expecting a lot of calls tomorrow. So basically what we done we went with Nippon TV, He was tracked down by many investigators including myself, and he works at an animation studio. Now back in, on June 4th we went in with secret cameras, and we were able to take film footage of him, he now has blonde hair and a photograph on the wall of the studio which I have shown to Peter which I believe your 99 percent accuracy...

P.S "I certainly can identify him from that, yes."

L.W " Based upon Peters testimony erm Myself and Nippon TV including Peter, went to the studios with hidden broadcast cameras, we had about three cameras in the room and one outside. And he was there in a separate room, and they spoke to his business partner and said "we want to speak to this guy we want to know if its real or not". and the footage I have here was from one of the small cameras, the main camera I'm keeping back so you can all buy nice copies of the film, erm no, No I actually dupped the wrong tape but you can see what goes on. And I want you to see it and make your own minds up, and after I showed the footage and after Peter has shown you his what we took, I'm going to go into the statements made, in regards of the footage from Wabe, and the company concerned. So here goes." Lee turns and starts the video " Oh by the way I can not allow anybody to film the footage because Nippon TV own the footage copyright also and I'll have my arse sued..... (audience laughs)

L.W. " I will turn down the audio for a moment in case I swear or something.." On the screen a shaky under arm shots of inside the van . We then cut to a shot of a building, HTV. They are positioned across the road.

L.W." there was a lot of excitement when we were sat outside and we were really under cover in the middle of erm Burger King" Laughter.

L.W " and there were about 8 people around the van ,cameras, we were all mikeing up , and so we were fairly obvious about what we were doing. " Lots of shots of driving into a car park appear. Lee speeds them up, the car stops.

L.W. " There is a lot more to the footage this is why you've got camera one. I'm only going to show you the relevant bits the exciting bits I keep back.

" P.S " They went into the studio under the pretext that they were going to another job, oh we got a do something about a sailing boat, and we want you to put some titles over a sailing boat. And that is why they went in there with the cameras going, and that is why nobody asked any questions about three cameras" "Three Chicken Kievs!" calls some one from behind the bar.

L.W " Basically what happened was that we confronted the business partner John Lomas, so you can ask for him, He was quite friendly and he knew immediately once looking at the footage cos we played the footage over the monitor to him and he knew exactly what it was about. This was what his comment was on after speaking with John. On the screen are very shaky under arm shots of the room and a man. The room is small with windows on both side. The man is sat at a computer table, on the table is a Mac. The software is Avid ( I know this as I use it myself). Avid is an editing software for video and audio. The camera moves over to the man. He is blonde about 30 years and not amazingly good looking.

Blonde Man " I can't really tell you ,erm It's up to John I know he was involved. er I knew he was involved with shooting it."

L.W " Key words there 'involved'"

The crew on the screen seem to be making some bargain with the blonde man. The man continues to bargain and then mentions that people have authenticated it.... The blonde man says " I know that he was there I knew he took the footage..." Lee summaries for the audience, We've absolute proof that this is John Wabe Alias John Wayleigh. He was working in the next room, and he just up and left." and this is what Peter has shot. "Peter does not have a copy on VHS so he decided to tell us all. He then follows it up by showing us as well.

P.S "so were out in a van, Lee is listening to a mobile phone and he says there going up the stairs there talking to the receptionist, OK now there going inside now there asking for John Wabe, Oh they can talk to him as John is in with a client right now. oh the partner is offering to do the job himself, oh well they won't have that they want John Wabe, they can't have John Wabe so why do you want John Wabe, Oh because we want to talk to him about the Oliver Castle Footage. Ha Ha. Oh so John Wabe who must have been off in another room, must have heard as there was a bit of a commotion , and apparently slipped out the back door. Now OK I was sitting outside with Lee listening to he's telling me what is going on. I see this guy coming out and getting into a car, and my subconcience was saying this man is familiar and I'm thinking its no one I am interested in as he is blonde and has a beard. Then I thought blonde and a beard. Hold on a minute, Lee saw him about a month or so earlier and said he'd blonde and he has beard. ' THAT'S HIM' I said I jumped up and I grabbed my camera I ran out of the van the cars backing up I turn on my camera. It's takes about seven seconds to get up to speed mind you. During that time, the car is backing up and through the back window I see Wabe doing like this - Peter demonstrates John Wabe waving at him from his car - Laughter. There was no question he recognised me I didn't have the camera up then. I have a shot of him Zooming away, you can barely see his face I ran round to get a shot from down the ramp. And Lee was running down the ramp shouting 'Will you give us an interview, did you make the tape...' Its classic straight out of sixty minutes or something like that, so ah Lee goes 'YES YES.' so I didn't know I had to have the footage ready but I will show later" ( and he does many times)

L.W. "The next part is that I entered the studio. So also while we were there, and we gave Mr. Wabe an ultimatum no we made a request. That if he could come forward and put us out of our misery erm then we would go away and would not expose him any further. We would let him live his life, we would stop TV stations going to his place of work. And if he couldn't help us or comply with our request, erm he had until 12 midday to do this now, John Wabe has compiled in respects of he is speaking to us and he is in contact and his assisting , although he can not give a public interview to us for a simple reason. There is going to be a program due to be aired on the 11th august 1997. Which is the big expose.."

P.S " The anniversary of the event"

L.W. " I believe the programme is called 'UFOs and hoaxs how I fooled the world' by John Wabe and this reminds me very much of the Doug and Dave episode that took place a few years age . Using the same tactics. Now what I believe was happening. Is they were going to release the programme and bring down every single crop circle researcher they could. It only takes two people to say its real and everyone appears to get tarred with the same brush. Now this is what the public were going to see. He has spoke to Steve a rep from Nippon TV. and John Wabe said the story that he sold exclusively contains how he made the film step by step, right this is what is coming unfortunately we got there first, so we've exposed him so there's no reason for this program to go out on air of how he fooled the world cause he has fooled nobody apart from a few individuals"

Someone: "Lee which station will it be on"

LW:" This is the problem we've been in contact with the production team who are trying to prevent us from airing our program they're taking legal action against us not for the expose they said "that's fine" they actually claim they've got exclusive rights to the Oliver's Castle UFO footage. Forget the fact that John Wayleigh has actually given rights to researchers, they've made a mistake. Now I don't think this is simply a man who went and created a hoax and went to a TV company with a story and wanted a lot of money. I think part of the involvement is a cynical attempt to exploit broadcasters, but I think there's a deeper reason for it also, now. I'm trying to remember it all happened today. We checked out with three independent lawyers people who specialise in this and they've all said to tell this company 'COME ON'. Sue us we are not going to stop at this . There is no chance they gonna sue on this. All we have to do is find a broadcaster, to put the expose footage out a day before theirs, And we aim to get our programme available for playing within the next four days hopefully. So it's going to devalue and hopefully numb the effects. And basically blow them out the of water. They have no story, Now if there programme contains how they fooled the world and how .Cos we have know discovered who was what, and what was done. Now they are in a very foolish position, showing their programme. Now there is a suspect behind the footage, now I won't give his name, simple reason, if I'm wrong he may suffer the allegations and social problems I've experienced over the last 8 months I've been accused of being behind it. There is a certain name linked with the studio, which is linked with certain paranormal programmes, which is also linked with the studio complex where they are based in and the first person to interview Colin Andrews at the conference in December in Bristol. And the first question out of his mouth was "WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE OLIVER'S CASTLE FOOTAGE?" The same studio who are declining to give their name and being very unprofessional, claimed one two TV networks were gonna air this. One of them is linked to the States. The other company happens to be linked with the name of the same person who has CROPPED up many times in my investigations, so I think it is likely he may have something to do with it but until I have absolute proof I'm going to give him a break, but I'm gonna pursue him, I'm gonna pursue the people behind this. There's other problems existing also with some of the people concerned receiving bad phone calls. So I think there's something bigger going on here.

I think what was due to happen was Doug and Dave expose the second you know misinformation the second. We've fallen into it quite innocently just trying to expose a piece of footage, so August the 11th you going to see how it was made and who by but hopefully we can get there first and say we were watching we found out and your programmes wrong. At least keep some credibility for the subject. All I ask of you is to continue the work and make sure it stays that way. Cos I'm retiring and I won't be involved. (smiles) in making any more films about this subject cos its absolute nightmare. Maybe in three years time I'll feel different, But for the next three years I want to spend enjoying it not filming it, so.

Question: (mike) "If this guy is saying that he actually hoaxed this thing on nation TV, doesn't also implicate him with the hoaxing of the formation, and also damage to the farmers field."

L.W. " It is quite possible the formation maybe real. To create that piece of footage you do not have create that formation. We have had a video annilise and reconstruction done, which will be shown in the programme, which shows how it could be made. And it would be made very accurately, and it will show step by step . John Wabe has not contested any of our findings, in any conversations, and the actual pack used to make the animation is called '3D studio macs' basic programme, quite expensive.

Question : "Have you spoken to Colin Andrews about this what his his comment?"

L.W. " He's very pleased, er from the article that was publicised about me, He said maybe I've made a mistake, but we're gonna get it sorted. Initially very happy. He had additional information and he should be credited for his investigation into to this also, so I'm not going to slag him down. As far as to the people that believe that it is real . It is going to to be aired on the 11th AUG. If you want to reconsider your positions and take a look at some of the additional facts, and I'll be pleased to give those people more info and go into it more full. And maybe we can all be standing up together, and say 'we're not going to fool for this yah know. The main point of this meeting I want it to be distributed as far and wide as possible. Whether it's the net, whether your friends, whether its people you know in the film industry. So people are aware that we have exposed it first, and that programme is false. I don't think we need a bad deal out of this, we've done a lot of work..."

P.S. " and it was done by people that were trying to trick us and make us look like fools. "

L.W " and I'm sure there is are few targets involved and I'm sure me Peter and Colin have used...... be basically gonna give away our film away, we want it out there"

Peter Sorenson then began to show us footage. We see the inside of the Nippon TV van. There are several Japanese men siting along the sides of the van. They have cameras. Then we see a shot of Lee with a mobile phone to his ear, and he's relaying to Peter. You know the rest. We hear Lee saying " John Lomas the partner is having a long chat with John Wabe about this." We then see the funny footage of a car moving away at speed, Lee whoops with joy and Peter is screaming "He waved at me, he waved at me." They both mention that it is the same car he was driving when they were with him last year. Lee then sums up all the main points.

L.W " He is the person who came here the first night with the tape and showed us light, He is the person that approached Colin Andrews at the Wagon and Horse and made a deal. He is the person that spoke to Peter he is the person that came to the studio , he is the person in an animation studio in Bristol he is one and the same, He is the same. He puts his hands up in the air and says 'you got me but I can't talk about it as I'm under contract. It is him there is no shadow of a doubt, definitely the right person, there is no doubt positive identification, and he has admitted its him, OK, and he wants this problem to go away..."

P.S. " and there is going to be a TV show coming out in a few days, explaining how he made the tape."

The questions start mainly about how can we all help. He mentions that Nippon TV is an ally. Lee wants no money for his share in the footage, just to deflect the damage. He wants information to be spread. The audience applause. Peter then starts to tell his side. You will be able to read that some where else on this website. Questions continue: "your reputation far precedes you, and sadly bad news travels fast, have you ever actually done some video film yourself to produce a hoax?"

L.W. "Have I ever made a hoax animation. And I invite anybody to investigate or analyse any footage I present in my film have it independently analysed I will make sure broadcast formats provided. All is not lost, a piece of footage which shows a UFO in a crop circle like Steve Alexander which was filmed in 1994, by two researchers from contact international, the Holland group. Now this was filmed and it wasn't ever released and we had this last year. And it was the back bone of our film as its called 'UFO's the crop circle connections' and when this piece of footage came out it basically has delayed my film for a year and has caused considerable misery for me and all my person fiances went into it and I nearly went bankrupt. Maybe it will turn out alright , ya know the thing is the evidence is knew, something exciting, something that people can look at, with at least some certainty, there looking at the real thing. It seems a shame that so many people out there have looked at this footage this animation and in there hearts have thought "Ah is that real?" they've been duped.

MTV had an independent analyst apart from ourselves check out the film and word for word apart from the last piece, of their analysis, matched ours, that was the bit about the camera shake because it can be done digitally....."

PS: "Wait, wait don't tell them the secret cos other people might go out and do it, there's a clever way to do camera shake....... don't tell them that secret."

Finally Lee finishes with:-

"Thank God it's over!"

About 15 minutes later the phone rings and it is Colin Andrews for Lee. Colin tells him that the programme has been rushed out in an attempt to foil the expose footage and is now going to be shown on the Discovery channel, Monday 28th July.

The Crop Circle Connector would like to Thank our Friends Adrain and Bex for their kind work filming this meeting and transcribing the video. :-)